Hello all.
Please support you sisters in the UK. We are now banned from purchasing dance swords.
Sad news I'm afraid. I have just spoken to Jonathan Batt, at the home office who has confirmed that we (belly and tribal dancers in the UK) are covered in the VCR (Violent Crimes Reduction Bill).
As Belly dancers, we are not covered in the exemptions of being classed as a 'sporting activity' or a Historical reenactment. While we can perform with our existing swords, if you have public liability insurance. You can no longer purchase a new blade.
This is scary thought, as if we are not included in the exclusions to the ban, the art form of sword dancing will ultimately die out in the UK! my sword was broken recently In a workshop when it was dropped. I now can't get a new one....
The only way we can get this changed for all belly dancers is to contact the home office and request that as a dance form that we are allowed to continue to be allowed to purchase swords, so that we can continue with a beautiful art form.
Please, Please take the time to contact Jonathan and request that he put forward to the Home Office that bellydancers and tribal dancers are made exempt from the VCR Bill. He is a nice guy and has agreed to be the contact point for this query. It will take a huge volume of dancers contacting him to make a difference, so please take the time to write to him.
His contact details are Jonathan.Batt@Homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk
Also if you are a member of a tribe, where this is not mentioned, can you please post information there.
Ta
Denise
Please support you sisters in the UK. We are now banned from purchasing dance swords.
Sad news I'm afraid. I have just spoken to Jonathan Batt, at the home office who has confirmed that we (belly and tribal dancers in the UK) are covered in the VCR (Violent Crimes Reduction Bill).
As Belly dancers, we are not covered in the exemptions of being classed as a 'sporting activity' or a Historical reenactment. While we can perform with our existing swords, if you have public liability insurance. You can no longer purchase a new blade.
This is scary thought, as if we are not included in the exclusions to the ban, the art form of sword dancing will ultimately die out in the UK! my sword was broken recently In a workshop when it was dropped. I now can't get a new one....
The only way we can get this changed for all belly dancers is to contact the home office and request that as a dance form that we are allowed to continue to be allowed to purchase swords, so that we can continue with a beautiful art form.
Please, Please take the time to contact Jonathan and request that he put forward to the Home Office that bellydancers and tribal dancers are made exempt from the VCR Bill. He is a nice guy and has agreed to be the contact point for this query. It will take a huge volume of dancers contacting him to make a difference, so please take the time to write to him.
His contact details are Jonathan.Batt@Homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk
Also if you are a member of a tribe, where this is not mentioned, can you please post information there.
Ta
Denise
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United Kingdom
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 8:40 AMI emailed! -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 10:30 PMMe too!! Bellydancers UNITE!!!!!!!
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 9:35 AMemailed and copied to 4ish other tribes ^_^ -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 11:19 AMThat's awful! I hope you can get this rule overturned.
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 2:25 PMOH no, Sword Dancing was one of a few dances i wanted to learn, i cannot belive that it doesnt come under historical as it is a tribal dance, if only in a cultural sense. -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 8:58 PM -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 12:25 PMThat's a good link lisa but wondering what it has to do with this issue, this isn't a myth to be busted, i did some checking around, it actually started with banning Samuri Swords and ended up banning all "Curved swords 50cm or more" it further stated that anyone owning a sword could keep it but was not allowed to "sell, rent, or lend" it to another person. Now they're taking it further and hope to ban "all" swords by October 2008. So this is not just hearsay.
I have passed the info on to some of my friends in the UK who love belly dancers and ask that they do their part.
Best of luck, please keep me posted. -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 4:26 PMi was referring to the post above that said it's historical. i don't think it matters with regard to the ban, it's an art now and it should be kept alive. it was just an fyi about it's history.
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 12:09 PMThis is the craziest thing i've ever heard! I know a few years ago there was a state here in the U.S. that was going to try and ban dancers from using swords under some odd weapons law but i think that pretty much fell through. A lot of festivals here to do not allow you to dance with a sword unless you are on a stage but that's due to safety issues for the audience and many faires do not allow people to carry swords unless they are peace tied while others do not allow them at all, which feels really strange walking around dressed as a pirate an not allowed to carry a sword! but i get off track. I have friends over there and will ask them to contact the home office, something has to be done to make these people see the light, next it will be fire, then it will be poi balls, soon you'll be required to carry a license to dance period! Geeze!
I will definitly spread the word for you.
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 10:02 AMInteresting note; Arthur Pendragon, head of LAW (Loyal Arthurian Warband), a Druid order, went to court a while ago to allow his swordbearers to bear swords in public for ritual purposes. As far as I can tell, he is the only man allowed to carry a sword on his person legally, and has set a legal precedent in doing so (ie since he has done it there is a possibility that others could do it too). I am a little hazy on the exact details of the case, but the legal statement can be found here. www.warband.org/statement.html
I am also part of a Historical Re-enactment group and of course all weapons must be blunt, as are bellydance swords. Except that bellydance swords are never used in any kind of combat.
Will e-mail him and pass the news along to bellydance friends. :)
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 11:31 AMSo, I got an email back... which surprised me. It pretty much said "thanks, we will consider what you and other bellydancers are saying, however, we have no intention of making any changes at the moment. We dont want to make a huge list of exceptions to this"
THey only have one exception... how is adding bellydancers a HUGE list? -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 11:57 AMI understand where they are coming from, even if I really do not like what they are doing. The way they see it is if they start making exceptions, then more and more people will be asking for them which will require lots of time and attention. And money.
And it they were to revise it to include a general sweeping statement such as, "except in use of performing arts." There would be people who argue certain controversial acts under this exception.
They really should have thought of all of this beforehand, put out a notice, and had everyone come in to plead exemptions all at one time. That would have made the entire process easier.
It sucks, we just have to yell loud enough to make sure they understand that this is not an option. It is something that their citizens are demanding of their government. -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 12:03 PMActually, there was a 12-week window for people to plead their cases about who should be included, but I don't know how well that was posted. It expired in May 2007- so there was a time that more could have been done about this, but evidently nobody got the memo.
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 5:08 PMok, how many violent acts are ACTUALLY committed with a sword anyway?and in the uk post 1600? are they serious about not adding more exceptions? -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 5:20 PMHmmm, in Canada the Sikh men are allowed to carry the dirk in public.. It's a right of freedom of religion in our Charter of Rights. -
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Mon, April 21, 2008 - 8:21 AMI got this today. It sounds promising. Its nice when you actually get a reply when you email about this kind of stuff!!
"Further to my email of 17 April, I should add that section 43 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 did introduce a defence for those supplying offensive weapons for TV, theatrical performances and film productions. This measure provides those companies and retailers who sell and hire any items on the Offensive Weapons Order for film, television and theatre productions with a defence from prosecution. This measure came into force on 6 April 2008.
I cannot offer a definitive view on whether belly dancing constitutes “theatrical performances”. You could contact the trade union for artists and performers, Equity, for advice. It is important to remember that the offence is not on purchase but on sale or hire, and production of an Equity membership card may provide a retailer with the necessary confidence that he is acting within the law in selling a curved sword for use in TV, theatrical and film productions.
The Home Office can only offer guidance on the legislation – it would be for Individuals to take legal advice if they have any doubts as to whether they are captured by the legislation. "
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 3:26 PMI guess that law enforcement will never learn. Making crazy laws about guns or knives serves only to limit good law abiding citizens. Outlaws don't care about laws. A person who is going to commit a crime is going to buy his or her weapon of choice in a black market fashion, NOT through proper channels. I don't know who keeps thinking this stuff up, but it's CLEARLY not working here in the states or for our Brit neighbors.
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Re: Swords Banned in the UK... Please Read
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 4:28 PMUntil this is resolved, join the SCA (sca.org) it's very cheap to get a membership...this would cover you under "historical reenactment" as mentioned in the original post. Please note I am not advocating the SCA (although I am involved)...I'm just saying, join up, get a membership card.
Regia (regia.org) which is UK based probably wouldn't work because they are very specific about the time period they cover.
